Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numbers
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What is the purpose of this project?
[edit]I once remembered that this project included the study of numbers, any numbers: real number, imaginary number. complex number, and many other systems. But now I feel recklessly dubious after adding more WPNUM template assessments to every other list of number theory topics. Does this project actually focus on integers only? Dedhert.Jr (talk) 04:35, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Dedhert.Jr, I suppose it can be whatever we choose it to be, with a primary focus has been on integers. But I think secondarty focus on anything relating to Number theory, and any numbers belonging to List of numbers (which includes rational numbers, irrational numbers, real numbers etc.) should b within scope, in my opinion. Per the discussion above, numerals and representation of numbers should also (to some extent) be covered, bearing in mind there will be overlap with other WikiProjects. I think we need a Scope of Project section on the main project page that we can all agree upon. Polyamorph (talk) 13:17, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Polyamorph I think this topic needs more attention. Dedhert.Jr (talk) 07:36, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Beland: can you help with this. It seems important that we have an agreed upon scope of the project. Polyamorph (talk) 07:45, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
- If you ask me, the project should be scoped to whatever the active participants are interested in coordinating with each other on. It could be only specific numbers, as Imaginatorium suggests, and I agree that "how numbers are written" is a logical thing to include in that simply because that content will be on number articles (mostly in infoboxes, but also for single-digit numbers as a section summarizing Arabic numerals or a subarticle). The next ring out would probably be everything covered by Wikipedia:Notability (numbers), which adds sequences and types of numbers. That sort of topic does seem to come up in discussions about articles on specific numbers, so it seems the editors here have the expertise to work on those articles, even if they aren't addressed by the guidelines here. Covering all of number theory would be a significant and the broadest expansion. It would mean a commitment to coordinate on a major field of mathematics here instead of (or in addition to) WikiProject Mathematics. If the broadest scope is chosen, perhaps "WikiProject Number Theory" would be a more natural name, especially for people only seeing it linked in talk page banners. -- Beland (talk) 18:34, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
- "Number theory" covers a lot of topics that barely show up in articles about specific positive integers. Are the Stark conjectures part of the intended scope of this project, for example? XOR'easter (talk) 19:49, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
- If you ask me, the project should be scoped to whatever the active participants are interested in coordinating with each other on. It could be only specific numbers, as Imaginatorium suggests, and I agree that "how numbers are written" is a logical thing to include in that simply because that content will be on number articles (mostly in infoboxes, but also for single-digit numbers as a section summarizing Arabic numerals or a subarticle). The next ring out would probably be everything covered by Wikipedia:Notability (numbers), which adds sequences and types of numbers. That sort of topic does seem to come up in discussions about articles on specific numbers, so it seems the editors here have the expertise to work on those articles, even if they aren't addressed by the guidelines here. Covering all of number theory would be a significant and the broadest expansion. It would mean a commitment to coordinate on a major field of mathematics here instead of (or in addition to) WikiProject Mathematics. If the broadest scope is chosen, perhaps "WikiProject Number Theory" would be a more natural name, especially for people only seeing it linked in talk page banners. -- Beland (talk) 18:34, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
- I think this project should be seen as a "junior subproject" of mathematics, concerned only with the articles on specific numbers. In other words, entries you might find in David Wells' dictionary of curious and interesting numbers, and not in the Penguin dictionary of mathematics (two popular books to hand). Imaginatorium (talk) 10:58, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Imaginatorium Can you simply explain what specific numbers you are referring to? All system of numbers or integers only? Dedhert.Jr (talk) 00:27, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
- I can't really understand what you can't understand but on the other hand "specific" can be tricky. I simply mean that where normal pages in the 'Maths' project have titles which are subjects in mathematics, e.g. "Ring", "integer", "quadratic field", each page in the "Numbers" subproject has a title which is a number, a specific number, e.g. "57", "1729", "1000000" and so on. My point of comparison is that the Penguin Dictionary of Mathematics has entries in alphabetical order, whereas David Wells' book (a useful point of reference) has entries in numerical orders. Imaginatorium (talk) 00:52, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oh. I see. Dedhert.Jr (talk) 02:00, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
- Any updates? Dedhert.Jr (talk) 10:25, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- What is it that you are expecting to be updated on? If you would like there to be a "Scope of Project" section as suggested above, it might be useful to draft some specific text based on the above comments and see if people support it. -- Beland (talk) 00:35, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- I thought there are continuation of this discussion, but sandbox is the foremost thing to create a draft. Dedhert.Jr (talk) 01:41, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- The general scope of this project has been mostly numbers themselves, mainly integers, as well as some other important numbers (i, 1/2, sqrt(2), e). In particular, it focuses on assessing the facts on these articles. Allan Nonymous (talk) 03:05, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- Are series and sequences included here as well? I mean, the reason is they are formed by the numbers as well; for example, Fibonacci sequence and Basel problem. Dedhert.Jr (talk) 11:28, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hm... that's a good question. Yes for sequences, but no for the Basel problem as it isn't a sequence. Allan Nonymous (talk) 13:05, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- I mean, Basel problem describes that the Riemann zeta function of 2, , which basically included as irrational number. The same way for Apery's constant , which is also an irrational number. That is why I am also include the series as part of WikiProject Numbers, and what I meant here is some divergence series contains a kind of numbers. Dedhert.Jr (talk) 02:38, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry if I just repeat myself, but I think there is an obvious way in which the class of articles whose title is a number has particular problems and characteristics. In particular the types of trivia that get added tend to be quite different from those in other mathematical articles. Of course all number theory articles and many many other articles which would come within Wikiproject mathematics involve numbers, but the articles do not have the form or problems of the articles whose titles are numbers. The subject of the Basel problem is a problem, as the first sentence states. This is not a number, even if it is only the problem of establishing the value of a particular series; notice that there are no roads numbered with the value of this series, no baseball shirts, and so on. I do not think that sequences belong either, for the same reason. Imaginatorium (talk) 04:22, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- I mean, Basel problem describes that the Riemann zeta function of 2, , which basically included as irrational number. The same way for Apery's constant , which is also an irrational number. That is why I am also include the series as part of WikiProject Numbers, and what I meant here is some divergence series contains a kind of numbers. Dedhert.Jr (talk) 02:38, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hm... that's a good question. Yes for sequences, but no for the Basel problem as it isn't a sequence. Allan Nonymous (talk) 13:05, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- Are series and sequences included here as well? I mean, the reason is they are formed by the numbers as well; for example, Fibonacci sequence and Basel problem. Dedhert.Jr (talk) 11:28, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- The general scope of this project has been mostly numbers themselves, mainly integers, as well as some other important numbers (i, 1/2, sqrt(2), e). In particular, it focuses on assessing the facts on these articles. Allan Nonymous (talk) 03:05, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- I thought there are continuation of this discussion, but sandbox is the foremost thing to create a draft. Dedhert.Jr (talk) 01:41, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- What is it that you are expecting to be updated on? If you would like there to be a "Scope of Project" section as suggested above, it might be useful to draft some specific text based on the above comments and see if people support it. -- Beland (talk) 00:35, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- Any updates? Dedhert.Jr (talk) 10:25, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oh. I see. Dedhert.Jr (talk) 02:00, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
- I can't really understand what you can't understand but on the other hand "specific" can be tricky. I simply mean that where normal pages in the 'Maths' project have titles which are subjects in mathematics, e.g. "Ring", "integer", "quadratic field", each page in the "Numbers" subproject has a title which is a number, a specific number, e.g. "57", "1729", "1000000" and so on. My point of comparison is that the Penguin Dictionary of Mathematics has entries in alphabetical order, whereas David Wells' book (a useful point of reference) has entries in numerical orders. Imaginatorium (talk) 00:52, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Imaginatorium Can you simply explain what specific numbers you are referring to? All system of numbers or integers only? Dedhert.Jr (talk) 00:27, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
Pageview statistics drop in May?
[edit]Does anyone know what might have caused the significant drop in page views to some (but not all) numbers articles in May this year? See for example: https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&start=2023-09-07&end=2024-09-27&pages=1%7C2%7C4%7C5 Polyamorph (talk) 15:28, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- It was the time that Google AI summary was released? That's the only thing I can think of that may have had an impact (esp. since AIsum probably didn't screw up on numbers like it does on other things). Allan Nonymous (talk) 18:20, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- That could be it. I found a similar drop in some other non-number articles, but haven't done any extensive analysis. It would be interesting to know if it's been noticed elsewhere. Given LLMs benefit from the free knowledge provided by Wikipedia it would be very annoying if they're also contributing to a drop in traffic. Polyamorph (talk) 18:32, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
It greatly saddens me
[edit]It greatly saddens me to learn that Wikipedia is now run by idiots.
I heartily agree that routine and irrelevant number facts should be eliminated.
But when I see the utter destruction that has been wreaked on the article 24 (number) it becomes obvious that the so-called editors who did that wrecking job know virtually nothing about mathematics.
Such people are exactly the wrong people to do this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.36.148.11 (talk • contribs) 20:38, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
- No-one "runs" Wikipedia. Rules are decided on by consensus after discussion. Similarly, disagreements about content are decided by consensus. As user: Allan Nonymous told you at Talk:24 (number),
New guidelines were drafted to remove extraneous number facts see: WP:NUM/G.
If you feel some of the material removed from 24 (number) should be restored then discuss it on that article's talk page. If you feel that some of the changes to WP:NUM/G are inappropriate then discuss it on this page. Either way, don't attack other users. Meters (talk) 23:14, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
Notability of 198
[edit]I started a discussion at Talk:198 (number)#Notability that is of interest to this project. lethargilistic (talk) 04:46, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Related deletion discussions
[edit]Please see: